vertical line?

[navaldesign]

Re: vertical line?

However, the code you have given is nothing else but a rectangle code. You have only limited the rectangle to be 0 pixels wide and have border only on the right side. Indeed, the following code:

<div style="top:25xp;left:50px;height:400px;width:50px; background:transparent;border-right:5px double red ;border-left:5px double red; border-top:5px double red"></div>

adds borders to the top and left side.

On the other hand, using the shape toll, is mush easier and immediate.

[Avoid]

Re: vertical line?

However, the code you have given is nothing else but a rectangle code. etc.

ABSOLUTELY NOT! When you use a rectangle, BV creates a GIF image of it. The disk size of a small rectangle image can be around 2000 bytes and up. If you have many such shapes on your page, you will increase its download time and your visitors will have to wait.

The code I provided does not create or use an image to display the border(s). It's pure text for the browser to interpretate. This is a much faster and more "legal" way to go.

On top of that, with a shape, you cannot choose to have a dotted, double or dashed border. With a <div>, using the proper styling, you can.

Dan

[LadyEye]

Re: vertical line?

lol i know but ive been mad busy and it means buying lots of stuff and havnt had the time , its very basic realy and i thought buy the name now then work at my own pace lol you know how it is when you get an idea its rush rush rush then fizzle lol will go back to it soon though trouble is got a new idea to keep me mind going

dont show any one but this was done ages ago lol www.thecarbootonline.com/demo.html

I've been waiting too, lol, so I snuck a peak ... lol .... I've got something along this line cooking as well, so hopefully we will be able to trade links for our sites. :)

[navaldesign]

Re: vertical line?

ABSOLUTELY NOT! When you use a rectangle, BV creates a GIF image of it. The disk size of a small rectangle image can be around 2000 bytes and up. If you have many such shapes on your page, you will increase its download time and your visitors will have to wait.

The code I provided does not create or use an image to display the border(s). It's pure text for the browser to interpretate. This is a much faster and more "legal" way to go.

On top of that, with a shape, you cannot choose to have a dotted, double or dashed border. With a <div>, using the proper styling, you can.

Dan

Indeed i said that yours is the code for a rectangle. I never said that this is the BV code for a rectangle, allow me to know well that BV uses images to represent the shapes.
The fact that BV "changes" the shape in image, doesn't mean that my post is wrong. The code you have posted is the "pure" html rectangle code, with the width specified as zero.
BV uses images, so it will use, instead of this code, a reference code, telling the browser to load the image that corresponds to the rectangle. Now, a 5x875 pixel rectangle, practically covering the whole screen height, converts to a 911 byte image. Even in dialup (only 20-25% of the current users) that will load in a fraction of a second, not to mention in ADSL.
But, the average user doesn't want to enter code in his page. Especially when the sizing and aligning tools of BV give him the opportunity to directly size and place the shape created line wherever and however he likes in his page. With the code instead, he must by trial and error, or using temp shapes, define the number of pixels in width / height . What a waste of time. Not to mention that using a shape, he can see in his BV page the visual effect of this, so created line, whilst with the code, he can only see it in preview or when published.

I agree that the code is the correct aproach when you you create your pages in a HTML editor, handcoding everything. But BV has not become so succesfull for the purity, but for the ease of use. From this point of view, there is no comparison between using the code or using the shape tool.

[kassi59]

Re: vertical line?

I had a dyslexic moment on earlier post...No matter the html and what evers...I would be very nice to just go to the menu and click up a verticle line as we have the horizontal already.
If I were to use the info above that would work great for me it would be a one shot deal because Id have to go back and find that info of "how to" all over again and that would be inconvenient.
good info tho!

[Avoid]

Re: vertical line?

Indeed i said that yours is the code for a rectangle. I never said that this is the BV code for a rectangle, allow me to know well that BV uses images to represent the shapes.
The fact that BV "changes" the shape in image, doesn't mean that my post is wrong. The code you have posted is the "pure" html rectangle code, with the width specified as zero... etc.

Our divergence mainly comes from a terminology misunderstanding. For me, a rectangle is a 2D shape that cannot be a container (html speaking) and that cannot be styled.

As you know, a <div> is an html tag that defines a section or division in a document. It can be a container for other divisions and html elements, each of which can be individually styled. a DIV of course delimits a rectangular section in the document but is in no way equivalent or comparable to a rectangular SHAPE.

I ran a test with one 800x800 px rectangle in which I enclosed 2 rect. 4px wide by 700 px high, one on the left delimiting the navigation section and one on the right delimiting the news or other stuff section (just a standard page). The difference in file size between the rectangles version and the <div> version was of a factor 4 (!!!) in favor of the <div> version. That is why BV developers should implement a visual, stylable DIV component. It would save bandwidth and keep visitors coming back to your customer's site!

I agree with you on the fact that users should not have to enter any code in an app. such as BV. But again, this reinforces the need for a DIV component considering the popularity and prizing of BV amongst users (rubbing it in) . Validation is another issue.

If you want me to implement that DIV thing, just send me the source code and wait a week or two (if it's programmed in Visual Basic, keep it...)

I feel like I am in the wrong forum and will not pursue this thread.

Cheers,

Dan

[navaldesign]

Re: vertical line?

There is no argument here. Indeed, i repeat again, your's, is the "pure" code for a rectangle. If you make it 0 pixels wide, you obtain the same thing as a line.
That's our divergence. We are not arguing on which is better, each software designer (in this case it is not certainly me) chooses his own way to accomplish certain things. What i wanted to make clear, is that there is no such thing as a "vertical line" in the html languagge. Your code, is a rectangle one. Making (in BV) a rectangle and stretching it to 1 or two or whatever pixels width, is the same under the logical point of view. The technique used to acheive that, is different, as you use direct code, while BV uses an image to create the rectangle.
To the final user, i beleive that the direct creation inside BV using the shape tool, is much faster and immediate.

[Avoid]

Re: vertical line?

I said I'd quit, but I'll quit tomorrow

There is no argument here.

Of course there is no argument here. We are just debating.

Indeed, i repeat again, your's, is the "pure" code for a rectangle.

...sigh...

If you make it 0 pixels wide, you obtain the same thing as a line.

The width of the DIV is not important here. In fact, you can omit the entire "width:nn" thing and it will work as good, as long as you specify a border thickness.

What i wanted to make clear, is that there is no such thing as a "vertical line" in the html languagge.

well, to me, <div>top:npx;left:npx;height:npx;border;npx type color></div> is valid html. In fact, in html 4.01 all attributes of the <HR> tags are already deprecated (but BV still uses them). Don't blink because you will miss the probable deprecation of the entire <HR> tag in the next version. You'll be left with nothing but the obligation to style a DIV to draw a horizontal line.

To the final user, i beleive that the direct creation inside BV using the shape tool, is much faster and immediate.

I Agree. But users should know of alternatives to it, especially when it can help them shorten download time and make their site go towards validating with standards.

Dan

[Avoid]

Re: vertical line?

I had a dyslexic moment on earlier post...No matter the html and what evers...I would be very nice to just go to the menu and click up a verticle line as we have the horizontal already.
If I were to use the info above that would work great for me it would be a one shot deal because Id have to go back and find that info of "how to" all over again and that would be inconvenient.
good info tho!

Hi Kate,

Thanks for having read this bla-bla and for your input. If ***** reads this, we might see your dream come true.

Dan

[kassi59]

Re: vertical line?

You two are wonderful. I will not take sides of those that are both not only talented yet intellegent!...this thread has been a very wonderful debate..and ...thank you navel, I actually GET IT!...lol...Your both a talent to this group!
Navel toughed me with strong diligence and re pore<spellcheck>to do simple html/scripts etc..Ill more than likely never get terminology down..but I now can do quite a bit thanks to Navel!....
for a dum nut I actually follow this...haha...hmm

[Marincky]

Re: vertical line?

Oh my god... what have I started here????? I only asked for a vertical line, enough of the arguing guys!! : - )

[Bethers]

Re: vertical line?

And BV reads with no errors if the shapes are used. Errors happen when the users don't use the features of BV correctly.

IMHO if you want to write a pure html page, you shouldn't be using BV but inputting your pages through the backend. I selected BV because I want and love the ease of use (even while I know much of the html)

BTW, in the 'old' days - like a couple years ago - webdesigners use html and non-existent pictures to align text on the pages - including in tables. HTML can be used to do lots of things - doesn't make it "pure".