copying menus

[MrCirrus]

I have a drop down menu on my homepage. I want to copy this menu to all my web pages so i presume i can just copy and paste it to each page. However once this is done if I subsequently change my homepage menu do i have to re-copy my menu to all the pages again? or is there someway of making changes to the master which automatically transfer to all the other duplicate menu's

[Andy128]

Re: copying menus

Copying and pasting menus is not a good idea as the links tend to get messed up.

Yes there are a couple ways to make a master menu. It involves using I-Frames. One method is complicated and one is easier. Both have merits.
There is a disadvantage to using an I-Frames /master menu method and that is that the visitor cannot bookmark a single page. When they bookmark- it will return them to your home page. Not knowing the content of your site- it is hard to advise.

An explanation of the more complicated of the two can be found here:

http://netisopen.com/computer/IFT002/IFMenu.html

The second one (although in this tutorial it is used to provide continuous background music) can be found here:

http://www.netisopen.com/computer/BGMT001/bgmusic.html

As you can see in this one- the Header and Menu are top and left side
and the I-Frame is stretched below and to the right. All subsequent pages of the site will be displayed there. So if you add pages, you simply have to add one navigation button to get to it.

Hope that helps some.
**Having just looked at your site- you could keep the header and menu as it is and stretch the I-Frame under it and then have subsequent pages displayed there. Looks like the second method would work well with your site.

Andy

[MrCirrus]

Re: copying menus

Thanks Andy that answers my question, I'll see if i can work through the steps Thanks

[navaldesign]

Re: copying menus

Coping dropdown menus is ok, they don't cause any conflicts. Copying static menubars, may cause conflicts if you change any of the buttons in a page, because the static menubar is accosiated to images created by BV, and there is a chance that in some of these pages, other button images (taken from other pages) may appear. This happens because the static menubar is associated with these images, and even if you change a button, the image is still the same, the one taken from the original page.

Andy, all of my site pages are using an iframe both for the menu and the header. I have never had the problem of bookmarking the pages. The problem will arise only if the site content is shown in an iframe placed in the home page, because, in that case, the visitor never leaves the home page. If instedd you have the iframe in all your pages, and the links open in "Top", then the page url indeed changes, and there is no problem with bookmarking.

[Andy128]

Re: copying menus

Hey Navaldesign,

Maybe dropdown menus are different- I had taken the previous advise about menu bars and hyper linking problems associated with copy / paste and applied it liberally. I seem to recall others having linking problems after copy/pasting ( http://www.vodahost.com/vodatalk/hyp...=copy+problems )

As to the bookmarking with the menu in I-Frame, perhaps I had set it up wrong, but that his why I converted my site back to regular pages and menus - I was not able to bookmark a page presented in the I-Frame. Most likely something I had done. I will re-visit it and see if I can figure it out. Thanks for the heads up.

Andy

[MrCirrus]

Re: copying menus

I actually used the first of andys options because the explanation was clearer. I understand naveldesign says i can paste drop down menus so i can do that as a backup. When i tried the i-frame method look at "news" "daily" the menu bar does not appear, can you help me. I noticed that i got the following comment when looking at I-frame properties "Your browser does not support inline frames or is currently configured not to display inline frames." do you think this may be the problem. Also canyou explain what selecting "top" is actually doing. Appreciate your help

[Andy128]

Re: copying menus

Ok- I think I see the stumbling block here. An I-Frame is a window placed on a web page. You can display what ever you wish inside the I-Frame. In this instance, we want to display the other pages of our website inside the I-Frame. In order to do this we need to modify our index page slightly to accomodate the large I-frame.

First- use the clone tool to clone the index page. On this cloned index page, remove the menu bar and everything above the menu bar. Now click on "save page as" and save it as page2. Publish this page.

Second- bring up the original index page in the BV web builder. Remove everything below the menu bar. Now click on the I-frame icon. Stretch the I-frame so that it goes completely from side to side of the index web page remaining slightly shy of the 800 pixel width mark. Make sure to stretch it downward to at least the 2500 pixel mark. Right click on the I-Frame to get to the properties menu. Give the I-Frame a name- Viewer
In the URL box put; http://www.glidingcomp.com/page2.html -Click ok and close the properties box.

Now go up to the menu and lets correct our links. Each link will be the same as it is with one exception. We need to set each target as - Viewer. What this does is instructs the server to pull up the specified web page and display it in our window (I-frame) named Viewer. Do this for all the links and then save and publish.

When you bring up your site- it should look exactly like it did before. The index page is the menu bar and the pictures above it and a large window (I-Frame). In that window is displayed the other half of our original index page that we have named page2. Do you see how it works now?

There are advantages / disadvantages to this type of site display as Naval has stated with respect to bookmarking. Using his method, bookmarking of individual pages is possible. You have to decide if the ease of upkeep and display over ride a need to have the user able to book mark certain pages with in your site. Keep in mind that all is not lost- when they book mark a page, it will simply direct them to your home page.

If you tried all this and it does not work like you want it- fear not as it can be reversed very eaisly. To do so simply bring up the current index page in the BV web builder and click "save page as" and save it as index2.
Now delete the index page. Now open the cloned index page and save it as index and then publish. You have now restored it to its original state.
You can now delete the cloned index page.

I hope that helps explain things. I will be around most of the day checking in- so if you get stuck, don't worry.

Oh yeah- the "Your browser does not support inline frames or is currently configured not to display inline frames." - is just a default warning that would appear if the viewers browser did not support I-Frames. But don't worry- I haven't had a problem one using or having my I-frames viewed yet.

Cheers,

Andy

[navaldesign]

Re: copying menus

I actually used the first of andys options because the explanation was clearer. I understand naveldesign says i can paste drop down menus so i can do that as a backup. When i tried the i-frame method look at "news" "daily" the menu bar does not appear, can you help me. I noticed that i got the following comment when looking at I-frame properties "Your browser does not support inline frames or is currently configured not to display inline frames." do you think this may be the problem. Also canyou explain what selecting "top" is actually doing. Appreciate your help

Ok, let's take things in order. The iframe must be present in ALL your pages. It must be placed above everything else. The iframe link should point to the page with your menubar, which is the ONLY page without iframe. The TOP target is necessary, so when one clicks on the menubar, the new page gets loaded on top of everything, otherwise the new page will open inside the frame. . As soon as the new page gets loaded, it will ofcourse load also it's own iframe, and at this point the menubar will appear again. The text "Your browser does not support inline frames or is currently configured not to display inline frames." is there to warn visitors whose browser doesn't support iframes, that there is something missing in the page, and what they see is not complete.

If you place the iframe above everything else, and you link it to your menu (or menu and header/footer) page, bookmarking of single pages is possible.

If instead, you create an index page with the menubar, header and footer, and in this page you have an iframe displaying in the iframe the other pages, then your visitor never leaves the index page. ALL your site content is displayed in that iframe, without leaving, for a single moment, the index page. This is not my favourite way of using iframes. That's because:
1. You cannot bookmark pages: you only bookmark the index page.
2. The rest of your pages appear, to the eyes of SE and to the eyes of a visitor, "nude", that is without header/footer and menubar.
3. You cannot use a "human" sitemap, that is a page with links to your pages, because if someone clicks on the links in that sitemap, he will be redirected to such a "nude" page. Not very professional, wright ?

[Bethers]

Re: copying menus

I have never had trouble copying and pasting any type of menu/navigation - as long as I use the icons on the page - which puts them in the same spot also.

I also am not a fan of the iframe approach - but I do know it works well for Naval.

[Andy128]

Re: copying menus

The method discussed/presented (Main or Home page with subsequent site pages presented in an I-Frame) is one of many ways to present a web page. It, as well as others, have their good and bad points. The user must decide if their web site content is condusive to method they employ.

Some other points to ponder:

1. You cannot bookmark pages: you only bookmark the index page.

Yes- a problem if there is need to bookmark specific pages of a web site as opposed to the main (home) page.

2. The rest of your pages appear, to the eyes of SE and to the eyes of a visitor, "nude", that is without header/footer and menubar.

Correct me if I am wrong- but wouldn't "Nude" occur if the page was viewed ouside the I-Frame? Also- the page viewed by the visitor would not be nude if viewed as intended- in the I-Frame of the main page. There it would have a header and menu bar. Granted- an absense of a footer- but that is not a total loss given the menu bar is always there.
As far as the SE's- if the content of the website is small and does not vary drastically- then the info presented to the SE's in the main page would be sufficient (i.e.- description, meta tags, menu bar etc...)

3. You cannot use a "human" sitemap, that is a page with links to your pages, because if someone clicks on the links in that sitemap, he will be redirected to such a "nude" page. Not very professional, wright ?

Yes you can- you could create a site map page that is presented inside the I-Frame. Links from that would also carry the target as "Viewer" which will load the page into the I-Frame.

It is always good to experiment with multiple methods of doing something. That is the only way we learn. Thanks Naval as always for stiring the mind. This forum would not be the same without you.

Cheers,

Andy

[navaldesign]

Re: copying menus

Correct me if I am wrong- but wouldn't "Nude" occur if the page was viewed ouside the I-Frame? Also- the page viewed by the visitor would not be nude if viewed as intended- in the I-Frame of the main page. There it would have a header and menu bar. Granted- an absense of a footer- but that is not a total loss given the menu bar is always there.
As far as the SE's- if the content of the website is small and does not vary drastically- then the info presented to the SE's in the main page would be sufficient (i.e.- description, meta tags, menu bar etc...)

Unfortunately SE capture single pages, so they provide links to them. A visitor that would click on such a link, would see such a page (without menubar)

Yes you can- you could create a site map page that is presented inside the I-Frame. Links from that would also carry the target as "Viewer" which will load the page into the I-Frame.

Yes, it is possible. But there is the same problem as above. The "human" sitemap, is useful not only for humans but for SE as well. That's because SE are, most of the times, unable to follow links in a menubar or dropdown, so "human" sitemaps are useful for them to find all of your pages.

Anyway, a admit that at first i had followed this way, then changed it. One of the reasons, that i forgot to mention, is also the fact that the visitor would always see the same page title on the top bar of his browser.

[Andy128]

Re: copying menus

Thanks Navaldesign- I always appreciate your insight into things I am only starting to scratch the surface of.

Cheers my friend,

Andy

[MrCirrus]

Re: copying menus

Navaldesign and Andy you guys are tops, by golly its worked, i'm so happy. Thanks so much for taking the time to explain this. It seems so simple now but i wouldnt there without your clear instructions. I'm having a few problems getting the pages and menu's centered but i'll work it out. The great thing now is i just modify the menu thats saved on its own page and hey presto all the menus should change. Awesome

[navaldesign]

Re: copying menus

Thanks Navaldesign- I always appreciate your insight into things I am only starting to scratch the surface of.

Cheers my friend,

Andy

Andy, you are far more than that. Your contribution on many issues (iframes, forms scripts, form security, music) and others are invaluable. Please don't be so modest!

[Andy128]

Re: copying menus

Thanks Navaldesign!

Andy