Microsoft Expression

[FPRob]

Are there any FrontPage users out there that are interested in this new package by Microsoft which will very quickly see FrontPage becoming obsolete?

http://www.microsoft.com/products/expression/en/default.mspx

NavalDesign, I notice you are in this section of the forum a lot, do you use FrontPage?

[navaldesign]

Re: Microsoft Expression

Hi, just looking at everything. But i'll pay your link a visit anyway.

[FPRob]

Re: Microsoft Expression

I realise the link I have provided is for a Voda competitor program but I figured that people already using FrontPage might be interested in it.

[navaldesign]

Re: Microsoft Expression

The downloadable version of Expression is a trial that expires in some time. Also, it is far more difficult to use than BV.

BlueVoda has nothing to fear!

[FPRob]

Re: Microsoft Expression

hmm yes, I know you dont exactly have anything to fear but I would hate to run a BV page through a W3C test. I know what a trial version is, thanks though.

[navaldesign]

Re: Microsoft Expression

Did you actually try it? from what i saw, it is not a WYSIWYG generator but rather a HTML editor, so Expression Webdesigner and BV are not competitive products. They are targeting to totaly different markets.

[Bethers]

Re: Microsoft Expression

BV does very very well in W3C - unless you add things to it - my first site complied 100% - until I added a couple things that I haven't corrected.

I don't like hearing you say you HATE to run BV through something when you must not have checked it out FIRST - cuz bv rules and COMPLIES - it's what you might do to it that might not.

[FPRob]

Re: Microsoft Expression

Did you actually try it? from what i saw, it is not a WYSIWYG generator but rather a HTML editor, so Expression Webdesigner and BV are not competitive products. They are targeting to totaly different markets.

Well then I stand corrected but at the end of the day they both make websites and both FrontPage and Expression do have generator features as well as standard design features.

I didnt create this thread to play one of against the other. I created it to find out which FrontPage users are looking in Expression... Like I said originally.

I can't understand your negativity in this thread ND but I am getting used to it from several sources on this forum so feel free to continue.

it's what you might do to it that might not.

Exactly. And like I said.. This thread isnt to play BV off against FrontPage or Expression, NavalDesign bought BV into this thread not me. I just want to know what FrontPage users think.

[navaldesign]

Re: Microsoft Expression

I beleive that we have some missunderstanding here, maybe because i cannot express my self properly.

Did you actually try it? from what i saw, it is not a WYSIWYG generator but rather a HTML editor

I was just asking: since i didn't have the time to have a closer look, i was asking you if you did, and what was your own impression.

I didnt create this thread to play one of against the other. I created it to find out which FrontPage users are looking in Expression... Like I said originally.

I can't understand your negativity in this thread ND but I am getting used to it from several sources on this forum ( ??? ) so feel free to continue.

Where is the negativity ? i was, on the contrary, telling that since, in my opinion, there is no comparison between the two products, there was no problem at all with this thread, a fear that you expressed in post #3.

NavalDesign bought BV into this thread not me.

No, you did, expressing a fear that this post could be inadequate, in post #3, and i simply replied "No fears!" No fears in the sense that "There is no problem in posting anything about similar or competitive products". I was just trying to asure you that there is no problem in posting similar content posts!

I beleive that you have done very well in posting a thread about a new product, that could become an excellent tool for webdesigners. It would be blindness on my side not to accept or recognise the value of Frontpage, Dreamweaver, Flash, now Webdesigner, and in the future xxxxxsitebuilder. I was simply expressing my opinion that they are different products and they have different target markets.

BV is a very easy sitebuilder, with the limitations of this kind of software, html editors are VERY powerful tools, but not as easy, as they require html knowledge and long learning curves. If i had to build Intel's site (hehe - joking) i could not use BV, but for my site i would not use Webdesigner . Totaly different products with different markets.

[FPRob]

Re: Microsoft Expression

Yep, I went downstairs to watch the England came and realised that I had bought BV into this thread (that was after I had posted my reply) so apologies. It was only by way of a half apology for advertising alternative products. But it was in post number 4 by you ND that the negativity began. Starting on the differences between FP and BV when that isnt even what this topic is about.

Thats when I saw an argument starting over Expression vs FrontPage vs BlueVoda and prior to that is the reason I tried to admit responsibility for advertising Expression (for that very reason).

I just want to find out which FP users are interested in Expression. Thats all.

I make a point of staying out of threads that dont concern me or ones where I do not have sufficient knowledge to take part and this is the FrontPage section. My original post was very clear and I didnt expect many people to take part since most here do use BV but now the thread has gone wildly out of control and off topic and for totally the wrong reasons.

You may aswell just lock or delete the thread. My original questions are not being answered, people are probably staying out of it because of the way the chat has develped.

[Bethers]

Re: Microsoft Expression

Well, I use FP - but just for some very minor things and would not build and publish a website in FP as it too has many problems and adds way too much coding which has to be removed if you use it to publish. Just my opinion - but it's good for me to check out things and pull pages off the web to look at components.

I only commented about YOUR comment about W3C and BV not being compliant - which it is - and FP is not unless you take out the extraneous codes it always generates. And then it's up to the web-builder - no matter what software - to keep his/her site compliant.

[FPRob]

Re: Microsoft Expression

FP is as perfect as any other web design software but the fact that it does add unwanted and uncompliant codes when used in 'design mode' rather than 'code mode' is testement to the fact that it is a HTML generator as much as anything else. This is why I was worried about adverisitng a competitive product.

The thing that has upset me in this thread is that I only wanted to acknowledge that It had crossed my mind (advertising a competitor) but I dont want this thread to be about Blue Voda yet so far the entire thing has just been comparing one against the other.

FP Doesn't have a single problem, not a single one when it comes to coding, unless you use the HTML generator (design view).

One of the reasons for the evolution into Expression is that the new software doesnt add non-compliant and useless code even in design view.

[navaldesign]

Re: Microsoft Expression

Starting on the differences between FP and BV when that isnt even what this topic is about

In Fact. i was simply telling that you didn't have to apologise, because the two things are not comparable.

Thats when I saw an argument starting over Expression vs FrontPage vs BlueVoda and prior to that is the reason I tried to admit responsibility for advertising Expression (for that very reason).

No need to apologise. Bringing in this forum news about products canonly be positive.

I just want to find out which FP users are interested in Expression. Thats all.

Well, I am interested in Webdesigner though i am not a FP user. If and when i'll have the time (because that's not my job) i'll try to see what i can do with this piece of software. I also have some knkowledge of CoffeCup HTML Editor which has some similarities in the interface.

I make a point of staying out of threads that dont concern me or ones where I do not have sufficient knowledge to take part and this is the FrontPage section. My original post was very clear and I didnt expect many people to take part since most here do use BV but now the thread has gone wildly out of control and off topic and for totally the wrong reasons.

I rarely post in this forum, as my knowledge on the topic is very limired. And i share your same opinion: keep away from theads when i cannot contribute.

You may aswell just lock or delete the thread. My original questions are not being answered, people are probably staying out of it because of the way the chat has develped.

On the contrary, this is a good occasion for users to see that there is absolutely no problem and freely post their own opinion. By the way, statistics say that BV users are aprox. 50% of the VodaHost client base. The rest use Dreamweaver, Frontpage, Flash, Soholaunch,CoffeCup, ready templates, etc

[Bethers]

Re: Microsoft Expression

And I'm not trying to argue - just posting my experiences - and while this is a FP thread - it's on the BV forum- which leads naturally to comparing some parts of it.

FP, for your information, is disdained by the biggies in webdesign as not being as good. Dreamweaver is considered steps way above fp - me, I figure - if it works for you - use it - if not, don't.

[FPRob]

Re: Microsoft Expression

FP, for your information, is disdained by the biggies in webdesign as not being as good. Dreamweaver is considered steps way above fp - me, I figure - if it works for you - use it - if not, don't.

ND I have taken on board all your comments, thanks for all of them and thanks for helping me becoming a bit calmer over the issue.

Bethers the above quote is so argumentative though and I guarantee you that the 'biggies' complaining about FP not being good are not big enough to know what they are doing with HTML. I didnt say that to put anybody down least of all people who are taking adavntage of the Voda products but for those people who do have a little bit of an advanced HTML knowledge have no issues with it what so ever.

Bethers "For your information" clearly says Rob you dont know what your talking about and it is this argumentative nature that has annoyed me especially when I clearly have more info about FP than you do having used it for several years and managing to make perfectly compliant sites without the auto-code interfering with my designs there by proving already that FP is a good program that matches up to any other web software that you can buy unless you dont know how to use it in which case of course there will always be problems.

Now for the 3rd, 4th, 5th (?) time..... are there any FP users out there who have looked at Expression yet?

If you are not an FP user please do not bother replying, this thread is not for you. Thanks